Mark T. Berry is a graduate of the class of 2023 from Northwestern. They studied Theater Management and Business, and were involved with numerous theater organizations and productions during their time on campus. In 2022, Mark received the NUPAC Scholarship Award for demonstrating contributions to the LGBTQ community through leadership, service, and volunteering.
Now, Mark is starting work in the production department at Imagination Stage, a renowned children’s theater in Bethesda, Maryland. You can find them on Instagram at @marktberry!
Special thanks to the host of Mark's episode, Moe Ari Bown. Moe is a 2x Northwestern University alumnus. He's spent the last decade as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, supporting LGBTQIA+ relationships, writing academically, being an adjunct professor, public speaking, and currently serving as the Love and Connection Expert at Hinge.
Interested in updates and exclusive invitations from Northwestern’s global LGBTQ+ affinity club? NUPAC is free to join! You can also express interest in joining us as a guest or podcast volunteer!
Mark T. Berry is a graduate of the class of 2023 from Northwestern. They studied Theater Management and Business, and were involved with numerous theater organizations and productions during their time on campus. In 2022, Mark received the NUPAC Scholarship Award for demonstrating contributions to the LGBTQ community through leadership, service, and volunteering.
Now, Mark is starting work in the production department at Imagination Stage, a renowned children’s theater in Bethesda, Maryland. You can find them on Instagram at @marktberry!
Special thanks to the host of Mark's episode, Moe Ari Bown. Moe is a 2x Northwestern University alumnus. He's spent the last decade as a Licensed Marriage and Family Therapist, supporting LGBTQIA+ relationships, writing academically, being an adjunct professor, public speaking, and currently serving as the Love and Connection Expert at Hinge.
Interested in updates and exclusive invitations from Northwestern’s global LGBTQ+ affinity club? NUPAC is free to join! You can also express interest in joining us as a guest or podcast volunteer!
Len Iaquinta:
Hello, welcome to Who Knew? I'm Len Iaquinta and I've been your host for the first inaugural seasons of Who Knew? I'm on the board of NUPAC, Northwestern University's Alumni Association. And we've been happy to present Who Knew? And we have many more episodes to come. And I'm especially happy to introduce our new co-host, Mo Ari Brown, who will be taking over this interview with a very recent graduate, Mark Berry. But first, let me invite you to consider. becoming a co-host of Who Knew Yourself. If you have experienced podcasting or communications, radio, theater, and have an interest in participating with New Pack, please get in touch with us using the New Pack link and let us know about your interest in also becoming a co-host. We want several co-hosts to adequately and better represent the entire Northwestern LGBTQ plus alumni communities. And now I'm thrilled and proud to announce new co-host Mo Ari Brown. Take it away Mo.
Moe Ari:
Thank you so much, Lynn. I am honored to work with you, honored to be a co-host, and I'm just excited. I really enjoyed our episode a month or so ago, and it's been just a pleasure working with you, learning from you, and getting to hear your broadcast voice all of the time. So I'm just glad to be here, and excited to announce to everybody that we have Mark Berry here today. Mark. graduated in 2023 actually.
Mark T. Berry:
Hmm.
Moe Ari:
And so Mark can give us a lot of his experience being a young alum of Northwestern. So welcome Mark. And you can begin by telling us a little bit about your background and why you chose Northwestern. Thank you for being here.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, thank you Mo and Len for having me. I'm so excited to be here. So yeah, I just graduated in 2023. In March, I graduated after the winter quarter. After almost a full four years at Northwestern, I did a Bachelor of Arts in communications, majoring in theater in the School of Communications. And then I also had a minor in business through the Capnic institutions, Capnic institution, yes. And I also had a minor in theater management through the theater program specifically. On campus, I was involved in a lot of the theater groups. I didn't do too much outside of theater because I was diving headfirst into everything I wanted to do. But I was involved with Purple Cran Players Theater and The Dolphin Show and The Wa-Mu Show. And I was a co-chair of the whole Student Theater Coalition for a while. So I had my hands in everything that happened in theatre, and then I also worked some with the queer organization on campus, the Rainbow Alliance. Yeah, that's who I
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
was on campus.
Moe Ari:
So you've been busy.
Mark T. Berry:
Yes.
Moe Ari:
I won. You've just been extremely involved in the theater. And that sounds like that has developed into a bit of a passion for you. From what I've read about you from our initial talks and just hearing more about your experiences at Northwestern. Now, it definitely sounds like you were beyond busy, but also passionate and just really involved in the community. And before we get more into. all of that really beautiful and meaningful work. I'd love to hear more about your background. I wanna hear more about little Mark, how Mark
Mark T. Berry:
Sure.
Moe Ari:
got to Northwestern. So more about your background and what made you choose Northwestern to begin with.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, so I grew up in Alexandria, Virginia, right outside of DC. I always say when I'm with people from the East Coast, I say I'm from Virginia, but when I'm with people who aren't from the DMV, I say I'm from DC. I grew up five minutes south of the Pentagon, so
Moe Ari:
Wow, yes.
Mark T. Berry:
I was basically in DC, but I grew up in Virginia, technically. I grew up on a boarding school campus. My dad was a teacher at Episcopal High School, which is a boarding school in Alexandria. and they moved there about two months before I was born. So I lived my whole life at that boarding school campus until I came to Northwestern. I did go there for high school for my four years. It was wealthy, white,
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
very Christian, very old school. So I have a lot of experiences there that I can talk about, but I genuinely did love my time there growing up. being really involved with all the faculty, you know, knowing them when I was a child too, when I took their classes as a high schooler. And I got involved with a theater program there. I started doing a little bit of theater in my community at a young age. We had the like older kids who were the faculty children would put on shows with the little younger kids. So I remember like we did Wizard of Oz and I was a flying monkey and a munchkin and all these, you know, easy little shows. We did Horton Here's a Who. So very like junior versions of theatre. But then I kind of stepped out of theatre for a while and focused more on sports. I was a soccer player for about nine years. I was a runner for a long time. And then in eighth grade, I discovered I have an extra bone in each of my feet, which caused a ton of tendonitis. I was in a boot
Moe Ari:
Wow.
Mark T. Berry:
for six months. and all of my athletic prowess disappeared. And that's kind of when I started getting back into theater, was when I realized that, you know, as much as I enjoyed the athletics, I was not feeling fully myself, feeling fully comfortable in that space. And when I started going to shows, I realized how much safer and loved I felt, more loved I felt in those spaces. So I started doing theater in my high school. fell in love, realized I wanted to do this for the rest of my life, which is what brought me to Northwestern. At first I thought I was going to be an actor. I did the whole auditioning for conservatories, for acting, and in the process of that I auditioned for a lot of places and I got rejected by a lot of places and I told myself, I just can't spend the rest of my life auditioning. That's not the life I'm going to be happy with. And so I switched paths and chose Northwestern because it has such a wide variety of theater that isn't just acting. It's not a conservatory program. It's a Bachelor of Arts program where you know, you get so much choice in who you are as a theater artist. And I didn't know who I wanted to be as a theater artist. I just knew I didn't want to do acting. So I came to Northwestern to do anything else. And so that's how I ended up at Northwestern was just the theater program was so exciting to me. And I took that opportunity and tried everything I possibly could on Northwestern's campus when it came to theater and found the world I love now.
Moe Ari:
What a beautiful story. It's
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah
Moe Ari:
a beautiful origin story, if you will. I love that. That, well, one, I'm sorry you had to go through that much tendonitis.
Mark T. Berry:
I'm sorry.
Moe Ari:
So I'll start with that because I've had to put things like planners and it just is painful.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
And so I really have empathy. And it sounds like that experience led you to exploring other interests like theater and going on this journey of really diving deep into theater and really giving it your all, being a flying monkey and
Mark T. Berry:
Hehehe
Moe Ari:
everything. It's just beautiful. Just the imagery of that, just beautiful. But going through all of those experiences and realizing you just don't wanna be auditioning your whole life and really enjoying the business side of theater, you were like, I'm gonna go to Northwestern because there are just even more opportunities to explore beyond that. Beyond just acting in even beyond business getting involved on campus. You knew that you'd have those opportunities I think that is a beautiful testament to Northwestern as a community. You said something very Powerful and I want to go back to it Because you were talking about feeling loved and accepted in theater Say more about that. Like when you talk about this love and acceptance that you felt in theater spaces, what was that? Was it around your identity? I would love to hear more.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, definitely around my identity for a large part of it, but also just around so much of what life is. I think theater is a space where everything goes, or anything goes. Haha, that's a musical. Theater is a space where you come in and you can leave everything that you brought with you behind, or you can take everything that you brought with you. in stride and carry it with you into what you're doing. And no matter what people are going to care for you, they're going to listen, they're going to hear what you're going through and understand and be empathetic and give love in a way that I don't think you really find in a lot of other spaces. And a lot of that is me, like contrasting that to like middle school, being in the locker room and the toxic masculinity and all of that, transferring from that. vibe into a theater space that was a lot more queer, a lot more diverse, a lot more, I don't want to say like non-toxic because that doesn't seem like it makes sense, but non-toxic. It really was where I realized how much community is what makes you who you are. And I didn't find a community that I felt I was a part of and that I felt I belonged in until I really started doing theatre. Which, you know, hit in high school that the theatre community in my high school was 95% of the queers were in theatre. So that was a lot of the identity-based community building, but also doing theatre you go through so much, particularly in high school because high school theatre is its own beast. You go through so much as a family and you come out of that stronger than you ever could have imagined. And so that confidence that built, that community that I found, just was so different to any other space I've inhabited before that I felt I had to continue finding these spaces, growing in these spaces, building up myself.
Moe Ari:
Thank you so much for sharing how much community you were able to build through theater. And I'm hearing how much of a team and a family that felt like for you to be able to be a part of building something bigger than yourself together. So I can see how theater cultivates that and then to find so many. people who share queer identity, who are also in a space where they're thriving and being loved. I mean, who wouldn't wanna be a part of that? You got
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
me being like, could I be an actor? It sounds beautiful. And so when you decided to go to Northwestern, what was it like for you, Freshme? I'm imagining you already knew you wanted to be involved in theater outside of your major. But I'm wanting to know more about that progression. Where did you live? What's campus like in 2020? What 2019 will
Mark T. Berry:
2019.
Moe Ari:
you get there?
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
What was all of that like?
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, I lived on South Campus.
Moe Ari:
Okay.
Mark T. Berry:
As is expected, you know, 90%
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
of theatre majors do live on South Campus.
Moe Ari:
What do I want?
Mark T. Berry:
I was in South Mid Quad's hall in the middle of the sorority quad. It was like, it was Sheppard Residential College, but it was in South Mid Quad's hall. So I got to the full like Residential College experience, which was really nice, having a little community. It was, I think 73 of us were in the dorm that year. And we like we watched Bachelor together every Monday and we had like munchies on Thursdays We would you know get like loom-a-motties and get popcorn and eat together So I really loved that experience Freshman year was very odd because I threw myself out there as much as I possibly could and You know, I said I chose go down the non-acting route because I didn't want to get rejected, and then freshman fall was rejection after rejection after rejection after rejection. I auditioned for like six acapella groups, didn't get into any of them. I auditioned for a bunch of improv and comedy groups, didn't get into any of them. I applied to be a part of some of the theatre groups, didn't get into any of them. There's probably more that I'm not thinking of. I auditioned for the musical theatre constant rejection, rejection. And I think what made that experience different for me from auditioning for colleges in like specifically the acting track was that, you know, I kept having rejection, and it hurt. It was not fun. But at the same time, I still had my home. I still had my community that I could find that I didn't need. all of this acceptance in order to find a community for myself. You know, I had a really incredible PA group that one of my best friends from my PA group, we ended up living together our junior and senior years in an apartment together, and we've like formed that connection right away from Wildcat Welcome. I had my dorm, had a really lovely group of people that I connected with on a very deep level very quickly, and so I was able to feel know, some love, feel some safety and feel some community before I was able to get into those spaces that I was trying to break into. But then by come spring, my freshman year was the year that everything happened. We went home for spring break and we did not come back because the COVID pandemic hit. And going into that spring quarter of, you know, I... was trying to build community on campus, but I didn't have like the one place that's like, oh, I'm in this group and that's my like family right there. Then taking that into, I am stuck at home with I know no one around me. I am seeing no one other than my mother and my cats was a very like isolating experience. And then freshman spring happened to be when I started reapplying for these groups and suddenly I started getting into them. and suddenly I started building this community. And so I was able to, I was able to find community without being in those spaces before the pandemic hit. And then the pandemic hits and I start finding these spaces and being able to access these spaces and having that community as well. And so I was very lucky to have, you know, a base of community the whole time throughout my freshman year.
Moe Ari:
Wow, I just have so much empathy for anybody that was in school during the pandemic. And certainly for you in that experience of developing this community, going away for going away to college, being away from your family for what is one of the first times for many people and then having to be back home with them. and not knowing how long that's going to be. Having had your independence, not having to clean up when you don't want to. And also just getting, college is such a unique experience and especially at Northwestern, you get to be around people and community and being that love like steeped in that community of your peers who are deeply thinking about how to change the world all the time, how to do things better, push things forward, and you're doing that 24 seven. And so they're usually like in walking distance of you. And now everybody
Mark T. Berry:
Thank you.
Moe Ari:
has to be on Zoom all the time. And so what I'm hearing you saying is that while you were faced with many rejections that first year, once you all transitioned into the pandemic, life of Zoom classes and Zoom community, you were able to then start to join some more groups and be a part of more communities that you weren't. already that you didn't already have access to through the university. And I'm really curious for you what that experience was like for you or maybe more of your peers who identify as LGBTQIA+, going back home and not having what I imagine for many people is like a safe haven at the university. Because I know you probably have many friends who were going home to environments where they weren't necessarily out or they weren't really well Received by their family for being LGBTQIA+. So in a lot of what you're saying, I'm hearing how theater at Northwestern was like this place for queer people and That felt safe where everybody's well people are working towards seeing each other and building something and then to go home and not have that. I'm really wondering what that was like for you and like for your peers.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, I'm very lucky to have a very caring and accepting and loving family. My mom came out for me. I can show you the photos of my High School Musical shirt in preschool that prove how queer I was from the day I was born. And I am very lucky to have been able to come home to a loving and safe space. But it was still a very isolating experience going from the freedom, like emotionally, spiritually, but also like physically sexually of college to coming home and I genuinely I saw my mom and I saw my dad and I saw my cats and my sister and that was it for about nine months from March 2020 through the end of 2020. I did not see a single other person. And you know, it finding so much of myself in college, and then coming back into the space. I should also qualify this with, like I said, I went to a very like Christian private boarding school, and that space was a very like closed off, very constricting space to be in, both in like the dress code was really strict and not something I was comfortable in to. the like don't ask don't tell vibe throughout the whole community. And so I felt myself very like repressed without realizing it. And I went into college and immediately dropped like so much of that repression and found so much new about myself, new identities, new experiences, new joys, new loves, new family, new community that I just never had imagined, never had experienced before going to college. And then immediately I'm back. on that high school campus, living with my dad as he still lived there, and back in that mindset that I spent the first 18 years of my life in, and just trying to remain who I was and keep that forward progression, keep that growth while I'm stuck back into the space that is so restrictive, so representative of... first 18 years of my life, the first chapter of my life, was a very confusing space to be in, a very emotionally challenging space to be in. But I think I was very lucky in it just happened that spring quarter I was taking U.S. Gay and Lesbian History in the Gender Studies Department, which is just an incredible class. It's so heartwarming and exciting and affirming. For those of you who are listening to this who haven't, taking that class, it's been around for a good 20 years now, and it is just a brief overview of all queer history in the United States from, you know, Indigenous days to the present. And being able to have all these discoveries in that classroom, in that Zoom room, being able to learn so much about like, Francis Scott Willard and all these random moments throughout history of queer. exuberance and queer expression in the face of oppression was so freeing and was such a necessary environment to be in while I was back in this repressive place that I had glimpses of what life can be, what life will be the whole time. So I was lucky to be with a family that was very caring and loving but also back in a place that I was. had a lot of deep-seated trauma from, that I had a lot of things I hadn't worked through, and having these little outlets like that class were really impactful for my mental health.
Moe Ari:
Yeah, it sounds like that class was amazing. Who taught that class?
Mark T. Berry:
I am trying for the life of me to come up with this name and I cannot come up with it.
Moe Ari:
Totally fine, but
Mark T. Berry:
I...
Moe Ari:
you,
Mark T. Berry:
Lane. Lane
Moe Ari:
okay.
Mark T. Berry:
something. Lane
Moe Ari:
Professor,
Mark T. Berry:
Relier.
Moe Ari:
okay,
Mark T. Berry:
Yes.
Moe Ari:
cool. Okay, awesome. Yeah, I just wanted to put that out there so that if anybody is interesting in learning more about that course, they can go, I'm sure that info is available or,
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
well, not the course information, but just to know what's happening on campus. But that's so cool that course is being offered. I don't know that I took that course when I was there.
Mark T. Berry:
I'm gonna go to bed.
Moe Ari:
but I think that that's really amazing that you were able to find points of, it's like points of joy. I
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
almost wanna label it queer joy.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
Even in this time that we all, I mean, I just really relate to being in this moment of like that nine months that you're talking about. Like we don't know what's gonna happen. Interestingly enough. My wife and I had our first kid during the pandemic.
Mark T. Berry:
Oh wow.
Moe Ari:
And so the nine month period feels like, it's almost like we don't know what's going to happen, but you're like expecting, it's like, there's this,
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah.
Moe Ari:
we're going to all come on the other side of this and it's new, kind of like a birthing experience. So I'm seeing those parallels. And so that brings me to what it was like for you once you're re-emerging, you're coming back into life on campus once you return. What was that like? And I'm getting to the point where I'm, I'm knowing in your story, you get busy, basically. You got
Mark T. Berry:
Yes.
Moe Ari:
a lot of stuff going on. But what was that like for you and how, I'm really wondering how your experience at Northwestern kind of shaped your direction, you know, once you got back to campus.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, yeah. Well, coming back to campus was a slow maneuver. Everyone was expecting that we would go back in the fall of 2020. We had made plans, everyone had their dorm set, they had, they made a specific rule where no one could be in a double in a dorm. So they cut like the amount of people living in dorms in half and put everyone into a single, whether it was originally supposed to be a double or a single, everyone was by themselves. And then they released the housing requirements. if you were, even if you were a freshman or sophomore, you could get an apartment off campus. You didn't need to be living on campus. And then I think it was about five days before I flew out to Evanston to move back in for the start of my sophomore year. I was a peer advisor at the time going through, about to go through Wildcat Welcome with all these new freshmen. And they email us and say, actually freshmen and sophomores are not allowed on dorms, shut down all the freshmen and sophomores from coming to campus, and I'm stuck back at home for the fall quarter of my sophomore
Moe Ari:
Wow.
Mark T. Berry:
year, very unexpectedly. And so navigating that, the disappointment of, you know, I had all
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
these plans, I was so ready to go back to campus, and also navigating, I'm a peer advisor, I am the point of contact for all these freshmen who several of them had never even been to campus. They hadn't toured. had never seen campus at all and they're about to start their time at Northwestern and suddenly they're stuck at home again.
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
And so that like period of disappointment was a lot, but we knew what a quarter of online classes looked like. We had done it in the spring of 2020, so we just did it again in the fall. But then they finally let us back on campus for winter of 2021, back in January 2021. And so I came. I flew to campus and at the time they were allowing some classes to be in person very minimally but there were very strict restrictions about like you had to be socially distanced in class and very few classes were actually allowed to be in person. It was just like the labs that you can't really do that lab from at home
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
that you need to have those facilities and so that was I was able to have my acting class in person because we tried acting over Zoom and it didn't go well.
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
And so I was able to have one class in person when I came back, but all the other classes were still online. All of my club meetings were still online. I didn't, you know, I had lunch with my friends once a week. We'd eat outside together. But otherwise all the food, we would like grab it from the dining hall and take it out and take it back to dorm and eat in dorm. Everything was inside. And we also had a two week, they called it, oh god, what they call it, Wildcat Wellness.
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
was the two weeks that we got back, we were completely quarantined. I was allowed out of my dorm room to go to the bathroom and to go downstairs to pick up my food from the dining hall. And that was it.
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
Stuck inside for two weeks straight, we would like, my dorm and I, we would stand in our doorways with the doors open so we could pretend we were still in our room and we would like talk through the hall just to interact with people. Because that was our only like physical in-person interaction we were allowed was standing in our rooms talking to people across the hall.
Moe Ari:
Yeah...
Mark T. Berry:
And we had to be like masked anywhere in the building. And I think one of the most like striking experiences as part of that was this was January, 2021. If you remember January 6th, 2021 happened
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
in this time. And that was, I was quarantined in my dorm room. I was sitting
Moe Ari:
Hmm
Mark T. Berry:
on the floor. I was doing a puzzle, a jigsaw puzzle on my floor with CNN open on my laptop for
Moe Ari:
yeah
Mark T. Berry:
eight hours that day. just watching
Moe Ari:
wow
Mark T. Berry:
the news and being from the DC area. I had a lot of people who actually I knew were out counter protesting that day and seeing all this happening, not knowing like, okay, are my friends okay? Are they stuck in this violence? It
Moe Ari:
Mm-hmm.
Mark T. Berry:
was a very jarring experience just sitting on my dorm room floor doing a jigsaw puzzle because I had nothing else I could do. So that was very odd. transition back into Northwestern. But once we got back, after that two week wellness period, I was able to go out of dorm, I was able to get lunch with friends outside, I was able to go to acting class, and slowly start to feel some semblance of normalcy. I was doing a show at the time, we were doing a production of Sense and Sensibility. It was a very, very fun production. We recorded it like a podcast through Zencaster. And we recorded every scene individually and then we did it as an audio play where we created this we got a couple people from the computer science department to come and create this like huge website for us where you could listen to the audio back while you school for this website and you can see like what the set design was going to be for this scene and what the costumes were going to be for this scene and everything that would have happened in person we were able to have online
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
and Then the night before the premiere we all the cast and the director and everyone we all went to Cold Stone together and got ice cream just to see each other in person because At least half of the team I had never met in person Several of them I had met in person before Back in 2019, but most of them I just had never seen in person. I've only seen their faces on zoom And so that was a very fun chance to like see people Hang out, but I think you know, I think back to it and I'm like kind of shocked by how isolating it was, I don't,
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
you know, going through it, it was like, okay, this is just what life is now. I guess we're gonna keep going. And now I look back and I'm like, oh, that was rough. That
Moe Ari:
Mm-hmm.
Mark T. Berry:
was not fun. That was a lot of times staring at my computer by myself in my dorm room. It was a very odd experience. And then going into like spring 2021, I think was where it really shifted as people finally started getting vaccines. I really remember very specifically Dillo Day, 2021. Dillo was still online. It was like Omar Apollo was one of the headliners. And all the headliners had prepared a 30-minute set with visuals and everything that they played on a Zoom call was how Dillo was that year, which
Moe Ari:
Wow.
Mark T. Berry:
I didn't watch any of it. I know very few people
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
who watched any of it, because why would you watch a Zoom call?
Moe Ari:
Yeah
Mark T. Berry:
But that was. everyone was just hitting or just past the two weeks of their vaccine. And so we were finally like, OK, we're much safer to be in person now. And there was like a ton of parties and people were hanging out with their friends for the first time. That was I had joined Purple Cran Players was my like home theater group on campus. And I joined them in March of 2020. But that Dilladay, May 2021, was my first time in person with Purple Cran Players. and we had brunch together on the roof of one of the apartment buildings, and we played cornhole, and we just had a great time. And so that was kind of the moment where I was like, okay, somewhat normal life is coming back, that we can have these parties, we can feel safe, we can be vaccinated and be comfortable around each other, and that was a very freeing day.
Moe Ari:
Yeah, wow. You know, when I won't go back too much into the 2020, you know, time warp, but
Mark T. Berry:
Thanks for watching!
Moe Ari:
I'm thinking so much about just like how much information we have, but we didn't have at the time. How much of the statistics were reporting that I would say people your age, especially, you know, yeah, I would say your age group, they would have said would have been like lower risk
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
at the time. It was like we're looking at the older groups, but we all still had to take these precautions because we don't know who's gonna interact with who. And
Mark T. Berry:
Right.
Moe Ari:
so it sounds like that impacted, delayed start times for coming back to campus. When you were on campus, when you got back, the ability to really hang out and have that like group experience was very limited. And... and a lot of people were still doing virtual classes, even when they were on campus. I imagine that means testing, and all this kind of stuff was virtual. And so you were kind of having like this hybrid experience. And I'm wondering for you, what are some of your, so as you move beyond that and you got to, now you're at the point where you, in the story where you're able to really enjoy your experience more and start to be around more people, what are some of your favorite memories? Where do they occur on campus? What are things that stand out to you as like peak? LGBTQ plus memories for you on Northwestern's campus
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, yeah. Definitely one of the biggest, like most formative experiences of my time in Northwestern was I was a PA again, a peer advisor my junior year as well. And actually got to have an in-person Wildcat Welcome was much better than the completely Zoom Wildcat Welcome where everyone is upset that they're not on campus. And I think that like two week period of training for my new students coming in was such a invigorating experience because it felt so much closer to a normal Northwestern than I'd felt in over a year and a half. We had to be masked at indoor spaces to be completely safe, but we were able to be gathered and be outside together and be our own group and go through things as a group, as a community, as a family. That was a very like... just revitalizing experience. And then in terms of like specifically LGBTQ plus experiences on campus, definitely some of my favorite memories are, I guess, well, one of my favorite memories is freshman year actually, before the pandemic hit, I was working with the Rainbow Alliance and we had the, every year Rainbow Alliance hosts a drag show
Moe Ari:
Mmm.
Mark T. Berry:
where Pre-pandemic, it was, there would be an amateur drag show with like any student performers who wanted to could perform. And then the, all the audience would vote on like the top three favorite performances. And those three performers would get to perform at the professional drag show where we then brought in a lot of performers from Chicago. And so I remember my freshman year, I was the stage manager for a drag show and we had our whole amateur drag show and it was. really poor timing that we had the amateur drag show and then the night that we were supposed to have professional drag show literally that day, Northwestern said, you're not allowed to have any campus or any events with more than 20 people or
Moe Ari:
Hmm.
Mark T. Berry:
25, I think more than 25 people.
Moe Ari:
Yeah
Mark T. Berry:
And suddenly our professional drag show was canceled.
Moe Ari:
Bye.
Mark T. Berry:
And that was the start of the pandemic. And then, you know, two days later, I was home. And but having that amateur drag show was such a fun night of just queer joy. And I had several friends who were performing, but I also like didn't know all the performers and getting to meet them, getting to learn about them and see them perform and like cheer them on was so exciting. And being backstage the whole time, I would like run up into the balcony so I could watch their performances. And then I'd run back downstairs so I could go help them change and get them ready for their next moment. that feeling of... this was also my first drag show I ever went to, I should clarify that as well.
Moe Ari:
Wow.
Mark T. Berry:
And so getting to like cheer on my friends in drag and go have these fun performances was such a just relaxing and kind moment in my time.
Moe Ari:
Wow.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, I will pause there, but I just I really loved that night specifically.
Moe Ari:
Yeah, I mean, it sounds like such a beautiful experience. I'm like, were we doing this on campus?
Mark T. Berry:
Hehehe
Moe Ari:
I was not aware I did not get an invite. And so it's just beautiful to hear that kind of moment exists, especially as we're looking at the landscape, politically, and drag shows have become have come under such scrutiny lately, where it's just like, so I don't have eloquent that this
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah
Moe Ari:
has, we've been at this time where drag shows are being scrutinized, gender and all kinds of other aspects of identity are just under a microscope and people just want to live authentically. And so I love that you were able to have this moment. It was your first drag show. It was a great experience and it's at Northwestern. And that really brings me to this next question. As Identity continues to expand and more and more people identify as LGBTQIA+. I think recent Gallup polls, I want to say from last year, show that half of, well, more than half of the LGBTQIA plus community identify as like bisexual. Gen Z are way more likely than any other group to identify as LGBTQIA+. And so identity is just expanding. And I wonder what, What your experience on Northwestern's campus was as I'd say you were as you're at Northwestern, there's this you were in this formative time where I think the rest of the United States is becoming aware. Gen Z is way more queer than everybody else. So what was that like for you to be on campus? What were some of some notable experiences for you around LGBTQI plus acceptance or anything that comes to mind that you want to share about that.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, Gen Z as a whole is a lot more queer than like all the other generations, but also Northwestern as a community is so much more queer than Gen Z on its own.
Moe Ari:
Wow,
Mark T. Berry:
Northwestern
Moe Ari:
good to hear.
Mark T. Berry:
is shockingly queer. And I think one of the things I love most about my time at Northwestern was how many people realized they were queer while they were at Northwestern. How many people I like knew and from one of the first days I saw them I was like, I think there's something a little queer happening here. And then by the time they graduated, they're like, yeah, I'm a she-they now. And people queering over time was very fun to watch and to see that happening with all my friends. So that's just an overall experience that Northwestern is very queer and very joyful in that space. But I think things that... like specific moments that really stick out to me. For me, a lot of my experience was coming to terms with my transness, with my non-binary identity. I have known I was queer since I was 10 years old and have been out since I was probably 14. But coming to terms with being non-binary was, took me a lot longer. It was something that I kind of sensed from even like back to middle school. I was like, this is not right for me. This is like... these pronouns and these expectations of manhood are not me. But then going into high school, it was such a strict, like, this is what a man is, this is what the boy students at this school do, this is what you are expected to be.
Moe Ari:
Mm.
Mark T. Berry:
That I didn't really have any space to explore who I could be, who I wanted to be. And going into college, I finally had that freedom to just let everything go and be whatever I wanted to be and do whatever I wanted to do. And so coming into my transness, I think is what I connect a lot with Northwestern. And moments that stick out to me are like, there was the creation in my senior year of Northwestern Stans, the Society of Trans and Non-Binary Students, which is like an invite, it's not invite only, you can follow their Instagram, but like you have to, all their events are private events where, you have to have like, involve yourself with the organization to be, receive like the address for the event, to receive the invite. And they'll publicize like, we're going to have this event, reach out to us if you are interested in coming. And then once they have everyone who wants to come, they'll like privately share that information. And we had like a pool day. And we had, we made pancakes one day. And just little small moments for trans people to find themselves and find their own community. Because I think While Northwestern is an incredibly queer space, and while Northwestern is a very trans space compared to what the national average is, the trans community at Northwestern is still growing, is still finding itself, is still becoming something new. Particularly the trans non-binary space on campus, because the amount of people that I came in with who ended up being they thems or they shees or she theys by the time they graduated, he, him, she, her, et cetera, myself included. That growth was really huge and common to see. And so finding that space was really exciting. And I think one memory that really sticks out to me was I was a tour guide while I was at Northwestern
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
as well. And there was a day where we had all the tour guides. We'd get like six tour guides. have, there'd be like a hundred or so students, and the students, we would introduce ourselves, and the students could come to whoever they wanted to, and I introduced myself and said that I use he they pronouns, and this one trans girl came to join my group, and she was like, hey, I like don't want to assume anything, but I heard the they, I am guessing you're trans, and this was the first time I'd ever been a tour guide for a trans student for who was like interested in Northwestern, and getting to talk to her about like... my experience coming into my transness, I think, taught me so much about what I had learned at Northwestern and being able to verbalize who I was and why I liked this space and why I felt comfortable in this space was so refreshing. So that memory really sticks out to me.
Moe Ari:
Oh, that's so beautiful that you were able to be there for her and really, you know, be an example of what it's like to be visible, authentic and present on campus. So many people come into their identity identities in college. But then so many people and I know for a fact with Gen Z, like so many people are coming to college with already established trans non-binary identities. And that representation of how you get to just be your authentic self on campus, I know really mattered. So that is a beautiful experience and thank you for sharing it with me. And it really speaks to. just like the future of Northwestern as a whole with regard to LGBTQI plus students. And I wonder, I want, I have two, this is two parts but I'm gonna leave the, I'll just tell the first part or ask the first part. I wanna know for you, like what advice you have for LGBTQI plus students at Northwestern who are navigating their identities as well as aspirations. And so for your trajectory, you found like home in theater. And I wonder for people, let's say, who are going through majors or wanting to go into professions that... where queer people are less visible, I
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
would say, or don't automatically, we can't automatically, well, we can't automatically with anybody, let's say. I'm gonna rephrase this question. Okay. So for students who are on campus and are majoring in, are majoring in, Okay, one more time for this question.
Mark T. Berry:
You got
Moe Ari:
I
Mark T. Berry:
it.
Moe Ari:
don't want to get it right for the podcast. Actually, let me mark the clip here. I'm gonna mark that clip. So for students who are on campus and majoring in disciplines where there might not already be like an obvious or visible queer community,
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
I'm really wondering what your advice for them is about pursuing their aspirations and how to navigate life beyond graduation. I already know you're in that place. Networking, job hunting, beyond Northwestern. What has that been like for you? And then any advice for them? about being queer and then wanting to pursue their authentic aspiration.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, I have two major pieces of advice that I would say for like, I'm sticking this to this specifically from the perspective of I was also a business minor, and the business minor and the econ major at Northwestern are two of the most like very cishet communities, cishet
Moe Ari:
Yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
spaces to inhabit. Being, you know, a queer person in like when I took corporate finance, I was sitting in like visibly queer person in here and there was probably 50 people in that class and I would be sitting there in my little like cropped sweater, like really cute little outfit and everyone else is in like drab gray pants and a shirt and that's it. And I very much felt myself like separated from everyone else in that room. But actually I'm gonna say three, I have three pieces of advice. The first is get involved with the arts because the arts at Northwestern is where all the get involved with the arts without being a major, a minor, anything, just to join a theatre group, join an acapella group, join... there's a couple art clubs, there's film groups, joining those groups is so easy to do and so... it's so easy to find a small commitment where you get this community but you don't have to be running yourself ragged doing all this stuff like I did. And so joining the arts is just the easiest way to find queer people. But second, I would say find the grad students. particularly for the business minor, that was where I found the most community was so many grad students are queer. I don't know what it is about grad students, but the grad student population at Northwestern is probably 80% queer. It's crazy. And so all of my TAs for my business classes were queer and being able to connect with them, even though I didn't really feel like I had a... you know, queer space in the undergrads, I had my TAs who I was really comfortable working with and meeting with and having that connection with them. So go to the grad students is another piece of advice. And then my third piece of advice is put yourself out there, which is such a bland thing to say. But I'm thinking to specifically my writing and speaking in business class. For the business class, you have to take class that's specifically on like writing a good memo and how to interact with people who are... colleagues versus who are your boss versus the CEO. And in that class specifically, while I wasn't able to find like a queer group, I was able to find a really amazing just friend who was an ally and who was really kind and caring. And we did all of our group projects together. And I was able to find, you know, people that I felt really safe and careful and comfortable around, cared for, not careful. cared for and comfortable around, even in this space that isn't a queer space at all. There is community to be found in those spaces if you can connect with the right people, is my other piece of advice.
Moe Ari:
Wow, thank you so much. I think that that's really great advice. Just inviting people to connect with what I would say when you were talking about the grad students, they're even almost like mentors to you
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
in that they've got a little bit more experience. So just inviting people to find those connections where they can. This is also the foundation of networking. And so I hear that nice business acumen
Mark T. Berry:
Yes.
Moe Ari:
working because TAs can serve as references. They can also point you in the right direction because they've got a little bit more experience and they often range in their age. So they can be at various different places in their life going back to grad school. So I think that that's really. great advice and to really put yourself out there and lean into two different spaces on campus that can support you. I really love that you offered those tips to our audience because I think that there are so many people who may not automatically know where to get support. And so that's really helpful. The first thing you said, which is to get into the arts. really stands out to me because I think for queer people, art and creative expression can really be advocacy. I'm thinking about, on social media, I was looking recently, and I've been seeing a lot of people doing voguing in New York as like advocacy and protest
Mark T. Berry:
right, for
Moe Ari:
of,
Mark T. Berry:
O'Shea Sibley and
Moe Ari:
yeah.
Mark T. Berry:
yeah.
Moe Ari:
And I thought that was such a beautiful movement. And so when I heard you say get involved in art and I was thinking about this advocacy connection and I wonder for you if theater felt like advocacy in many points or if creative expression has felt like that and then if you can speak to that in your, through your experience in Northwestern or the work that you're wanting to get involved in now.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Theater, I think, is art in general is so intertwined with advocacy because, you know, we are living in a society where the arts are being attacked in public schools, in youth, but also to the, like, government now. The arts programs are being attacked, are being defunded, are being destroyed in our society. And I think part of that is because art is such a, like, communal-based space. which goes against everything that fascist ideology searches for. Having that space of love and care and joy is so antithetical to things that are happening in a certain part of our society. But one of the things that I really love about Northwestern's programs in the arts, there is a lot of really specific ways to find new paths for that. So for example, the theater major has a bunch of different, we call them modules that you can take. So I did the theater management module, but there is one that's the performance and activism module, which is specifically focused on how we use performance as a method of activism. I didn't actually do that whole module, but I took a couple classes in that realm. I took a like oral storytelling class that was focused on how storytelling is a form of political activism. I wrote a whole paper on Larry Kramer during that class, which was really enlightening about AIDS advocacy and how plays and theater took such a strong statement in that time. But there's other classes being offered. I took a really incredible class. This is probably my favorite class I took at Northwestern, specifically focused on queerness. through indigeneity. It was taught by a grad student who was Quechua, which is an indigenous community in the Andes in Peru. And he spoke to, it was a class where he spoke about, each unit was a different like, region of indigeneity. And being able to see how... queerness has existed in all these other cultures for centuries. But then specifically focusing a lot of that class was on how queerness is a protest in these communities was really incredible. Other things I'm thinking about, there's the theater, the student theater side of things, like the student theater organizations have so much to do with advocacy. The spectrum theater is specifically focused on socio-political theater, and so all of the work they do is focused on some sort of socio-political conversation that's happening in this country today. So for example, they did a piece that was really amazing about climate change. They did a lot of devising work where students can create and share the stories that they want to be talking about that they are experiencing right now. Every year they do like a fully new written play that is written based on interviews that the writers take with other students on campus to hear their stories and to talk about specific things that are happening and how we are existing as Gen Z in that space. Like this year it was all about dating apps and queerness in that space. but then the previous year it was about women in business and they've done some really incredible work there. I was involved with Purple Crown Players, which specifically focused on theater for young audiences and I think that really is what has stuck with me and taught me what I want to do with my life. I had a really good friend, her name is Gabriella. She was also on Purple Crown Players with me the whole time and we've done so many shows together over our time. And she taught me the phrase radical joy. which has stuck with me ever since. The idea that as a queer person, as a trans person, my joy is an act of protest. Finding my love and finding my community and having my joy is a protest in the face of what is happening in our society right now. And so much of what I wanna do with my life is based off of that, that I want to be creating this joy. for other queer people, for other trans people, for other neurodiverse people, for other, you know, all these different identity bases. I want to be creating that joy and finding that community for them. And theatre has taught me how to do that. Yeah.
Moe Ari:
That was beautiful and poetic. And I was like writing notes because you're absolutely right. Joy is this revolutionary act. I believe I always talk about authenticity as radical because we
Mark T. Berry:
Mm-hmm.
Moe Ari:
live in this space where to be your, being your authentic self is often coming. up means coming up against the structures that are asking you to be the same in order to belong. And in fact, that's not real belonging. If you have to be like everybody else and you can't be yourself, it's like this, this faux belonging that is being dangled like a carrot in front of us, like I'll let you be in the group. But to be your, your authentic self is this radical act and to be in joy and in love with yourself in this way. is so revolutionary because on the other side of that, we realize that real belonging gets created, real community gets created when we're all celebrated for being authentic selves. And so I heard you saying that very loudly and proudly, and I love it. And I definitely wrote that down for myself. And, you know, throughout your story today, I've been hearing several things. And it's something that I talk about a lot in my work, this idea that rejection is redirection. And so I heard in the beginning of your narrative today talking about being rejected from a lot of different conservatories and other institutions and ending up deciding that you want to be a Northwestern. And I'm thinking you made the right choice. Now, that's
Mark T. Berry:
Yes, yes.
Moe Ari:
my personal opinion. Then I hear you saying yes. And so that's one moment where you were redirected. And then there's this moment freshman year where you're not getting into certain organizations, but you end up with a really beautiful community. And so there's, and then you've had a number of other comments about this rejection along the way. And so there's this really meaningful message that's emerging as I'm listening to you. about really surrendering to those moments where you're being redirected and being open to that experience, it really sounds like you've been just very heart open through all of the ups and downs, the changes, the pandemic, the being on campus, being off campus, your flexibility allowed you to leave your Northwestern experience with this joy that you talk about. your ability to communicate that positivity and even share that as a tour, to giving campus tours or being a peer advisor, all of those experiences have been because your heart has been open to sharing your joy with other people. And it really matters to the future of Northwestern students that we continue as alumni to share our voices and share this love. And so I really appreciate you having been on the podcast today. Uh, who knew that such amazing people like Mark exists. And so I'm just very grateful that you shared your voice. Is there anything you want to share with our audience before you leave, uh, any, uh, points of inspiration or anything that you want to just share with people about your time in Northwestern being LGBTQI plus where you're headed, uh, how people can connect with you, just go ahead and offer us that.
Mark T. Berry:
Yeah, I mean the first thing that comes to my mind is just I am so grateful to Northwestern's queer community for what it is and what it's becoming. Even in the four years I was there, I saw so much growth in like who queer Northwestern is, and it's so exciting to see how much life and liberty and love is being found in these spaces and how much these spaces are growing, and they are penetrating into the business program. They are. finding their way into the computer science program and all the areas that our various has had, being able to see that growth is really exciting. I would also just say I'm very grateful to NUPAC for everything that they've given me over my time, and I'm so excited to build relationships with this community. And yeah, I guess if you want to connect with me, you can follow me on Instagram at Mark T. Berry. Yeah.
Moe Ari:
Beautiful. Thank you so much for joining us today. This has been a beautiful episode. I'll pause right here. I'm your host Mo'Ari, and I look forward to more episodes together. Thank you for tuning in.